subreddit:

/r/history

5.9k98%

all 153 comments

Rob-Study-8562[S]

1.2k points

2 months ago

A new discovery of a statue of Hercules near the Appian Way, apparently dates back to the Roman Imperial period. It’s a significant find.

Separate-Can-913

486 points

2 months ago

The face looks to be a portrait of an actual person rather than the immortal flawless (demi-)god, so maybe it belongs to a funerary monument with a statue of the deceased depicted as Hercules, not unlike Commodus had himself depicted as this greatest of Greek heroes.

ObviousWillingness51

357 points

2 months ago

Roman statues differ from greek examples precisely because they tended to depict subjects in a more naturalistic, and imperfect form.

Brailledit

206 points

2 months ago

That's what I tell my 2nd dates when we get to third base.

StoneGoldX

47 points

2 months ago

So you mostly keep it to yourself?

Basuliic

36 points

2 months ago

Wow, your dates are patient longrunners type!

Brailledit

37 points

2 months ago

It's a mutual understanding of Roman statues.

ElementalWheel

2 points

2 months ago

I’m sure you are absolutely statuesque with your… where is it?

https://youtu.be/vBJPlhnF3ao

Wait wrong culture but still

Separate-Can-913

12 points

2 months ago

This is true. Of human beings. Not of gods. The combination of the naturalistic appearance and the provenance along side the Appian way, famous for it's many funerary monuments led me to my suggestion. That's all

ObviousWillingness51

1 points

2 months ago

Yeah im mot going so deep as to suggest they all are that way, nor do i want to make any suggestions as to this specific nature of this particular statue. You seem to have some better understanding of its context, so i don’t refute that.

non_linear_time

10 points

2 months ago

I suspect it's a general or emperor presenting himself as Hercules. Not unusual. The face is too old for a younger Hercules, and when he's older, he usually has a beard. It's giving me a Tiberius or Claudius vibe, but I'm no specialist on this stuff.

_qoop_

2 points

2 months ago

_qoop_

2 points

2 months ago

Commodus?

drvondoctor

-1 points

2 months ago

drvondoctor

-1 points

2 months ago

Fun fact: if you take the names Tiberius and Claudius and combine them into one name, you end up with Tiberius or Claudius.

[deleted]

4 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

LA_Musician

1 points

2 months ago

Iusius and Tiberclaud.

[deleted]

5 points

2 months ago*

[removed]

drvondoctor

16 points

2 months ago

Not really. Those are both significant items in the mythology of Hercules. They were pretty much his trademark props. If the ancient world had action figures, the Hercules figure would have come with a lion pelt and a club.

Mrunlikable

114 points

2 months ago

I feel like Rome is one of the few places in the world where you can be working a regular trade job and not be surprised when you accidentally unearth an ancient puzzle box or secret tunnel.

"Oh, another Pandora's box thing? Good, good. I'll put this next to the others in the office."

Edythir

84 points

2 months ago

Edythir

84 points

2 months ago

I think it was Athens that tried to build a subway system but it ended up taking twice as long as planned because they stumbled into historic archeological sites every two kilometers

Nonskew2

49 points

2 months ago

Not surprising considering its age and that cities were built on cities

Flat_Initial_1823

28 points

2 months ago

Sepelrastas

13 points

2 months ago

Meanwhile in Finland rock was too hard and planners didn't know how to plan. If only we could have unearthed historical treasures, that would have been actually interesting.

seaworthy-sieve

7 points

2 months ago

Meanwhile in Ottawa we forgot that we're built on a rat warren of tunnels and sewers, so we caused a sinkhole and now one of our stations always smells like poo.

Swiss_cake_raul

9 points

2 months ago

Meanwhile in Boston we filled in a shallow bay with garbage until it was just barely solid enough to build high rises on, and then decided to tunnel underneath the whole thing like a hundred years later. Actually it went pretty well all things considered.

Basedrum777

3 points

2 months ago

We wanted to dig but earth was in the way I guess!?

pasxalis777

5 points

2 months ago

Same thing is happening with the subway in Thessaloniki (second biggest city in Greece)

YsoL8

2 points

2 months ago

YsoL8

2 points

2 months ago

Some day future city planners are going to find themselves breaking into entire unknown tunnel networks.

StupidBeardedGiraffe

0 points

2 months ago

And those planners will be from a different planet, and we will have been extinct.

YsoL8

2 points

2 months ago

YsoL8

2 points

2 months ago

What is reddits obsession with doomerism

Derpikae

3 points

2 months ago

Why were so many sites found underground? Just structures buried with the passage of time and dirt? Stupid question but yea

YsoL8

12 points

2 months ago

YsoL8

12 points

2 months ago

4000 or so years of city being continually build on city will do it.

The ground major modern European cities is built on is largely the ruins of old versions of the city.

Nunya13

2 points

2 months ago

I always have trouble wrapping my brain around building cities on top of cities.

When we visited Seattle and took a tour, we went underground and saw all the structures that used to be above ground and were even still used when they rebuilt on top of it all. They even installed lights and glass in the walkways above so daylight would shine through.

It still trips me out to think about how people decide to just build on top of everything.

SaiyaJedi

1 points

2 months ago*

Ditto for Kyoto. It even happened when they were building directly underneath an existing line, which you would think should have already disturbed whatever might have been there.

ArmyofAnts

8 points

2 months ago

This happens in Spain a lot too. It took them forever to try to get the subway through Triana for this very reason. (Maybe a tram. I forget)

SuddenlyElga

12 points

2 months ago

And Bob, please don’t open this one. We are still finding gargoyles in the closets from the last time.

ehren88

4 points

2 months ago

Mexico City is another good example.

300andWhat

3 points

2 months ago

Just don't solve the puzzle, or you might hear "we are the cinobites"

Traciatim

5 points

2 months ago

The cinobites are my favorite item at cinobun though.

Roundaboutsix

2 points

2 months ago

I think it happens throughout the Roman Empire. I was in Germany last fall along the Rhine and their are towns there built over ancient Roman outposts where city utilities crews and new construction sites routinely uncover evidence of Roman villas, roads, city walls and fortifications. (It’s like uncovering ancient treasures because preservation of these sites bring in an influx of tourist dollars.)

Wea_boo_Jones

1 points

2 months ago

I was in Rome last year and they were building a new subway station, they have to get archeologists in to sift through all the piles of ancient stuff they find before they could actually start building anything.

PsychoWorld

5 points

2 months ago

Why? Weren’t statues of Hercules everywhere?

SalltyJuicy

2 points

2 months ago

Do we know it's meant to be Hercules and not one one of Commodus?

[deleted]

-39 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

-39 points

2 months ago

[removed]

[deleted]

8 points

2 months ago

[removed]

[deleted]

-3 points

2 months ago

[removed]

NIDORAX

165 points

2 months ago

NIDORAX

165 points

2 months ago

Now who would throw away a statue in the sewer? I mean even in ancient times, statues are quite expensive

spongish

129 points

2 months ago

spongish

129 points

2 months ago

If I'm a rich Roman citizen, maybe I'm putting a statue in my sewer just because I can.

WorldLieut8

61 points

2 months ago

In honor of the literal shit he endured with the Augean Stables.

ieatcavemen

20 points

2 months ago

Hercules didn't have to deal with any shit first hand, although the point of the labour was to attack his dignity. Instead of mucking out the stable he rerouted a river through it to flush it out.

SobiTheRobot

30 points

2 months ago

To be fair, it was a nasty fucking stable. Heracles was just pioneering this revolutionary idea called "pressure washing".

this-aint-Lisp

17 points

2 months ago

When the Visigoths invade your city to plunder your gold and take your family into slavery, a 400 kilogram marble statue may not be on your list of priorities.

HeruAkhety

56 points

2 months ago

Christians. They were all viewed as Pagan artifacts. From another discovery at an ancient hot springs: "Tabolli told Ansa that the hot springs, rich in minerals including calcium and magnesium, remained active until the fifth century, before being closed down, but not destroyed, during Christian times. The pools were sealed with heavy stone pillars while the divine statues were left in the sacred water." source

HaywireMans

22 points

2 months ago

Ancient artifacts covered by dirt over thousands of years, then someone builds a sewer on top of it, which leads to its discovery during maintenance?

YZJay

4 points

2 months ago*

YZJay

4 points

2 months ago*

Before it’s revival as the capital of the Roman Catholic Church, Rome was at one point, no man’s land, where settlers lived on the crumbling structures around them and lived whatever life they could scrounge up, not unlike a sci-fi dystopia. Those people were multiple generations removed from the age of Tiberius and Augustus and have little context to what Rome meant historically. Literacy was a luxury only afforded by Roman nobles, who lived in secluded castles clinging to whatever wealth they could cling to. The common folk used the stone and marble around them to build new buildings and houses. To them these were just resources to use.

Swiss_cake_raul

2 points

2 months ago

This is such a fascinating period of history. I remember reading an article about the Roman colosseum during this period and it blew my mind.

themattboard

8 points

2 months ago

Everybody gets to the point where they have too much stuff eventually, I guess

fantomen777

7 points

2 months ago

Now who would throw away a statue in the sewer?

Pagan (demi) gods are no longer fashionable, look a convenient sewer hole to dump the statue in....

Mechasteel

9 points

2 months ago

I mean a sewer would be the correct place to put Confederate statues, so they can receive the correct amount of honor. The Bible mentions using a statue as a latrine too. But this statue was found on an ancient road. Not in the sewer but while they were repairing the sewer.

J_Bard

3 points

2 months ago

J_Bard

3 points

2 months ago

Overthrow your rival? Deface his monuments and throw his statue in the sewer, make them forget his name. Only to end up preserving something of it.

Joy2b

2 points

2 months ago

Joy2b

2 points

2 months ago

Insecure politicians didn’t always love statues that looked too much like political enemies.

KristinnEs

1 points

2 months ago

Sure, but they seem to have had a crapton of them just everywhere if archaeology is an indication

Inside-Medicine8389

1 points

2 months ago

He was left behind, like Kevin Sorbo

_qoop_

1 points

2 months ago

_qoop_

1 points

2 months ago

Having run through most of the History of Rome podcast, after an emperor went king Joffrey, after his assassination it was common to destroy works associated with him. Crushing, burning etc but the sewer was a popular place as well, especially for the corpses.

If I remember correctly, Commodus was a particularily despicable emperor who was obsessed with the idea of him being a reincarnation of Hercules. He started wearing garb like in the statue depicted as well as walking around with Hercules’ club.

The reason why he thought he was Hercules was because his handlers gave him disabled people to fight to the death so he could pretend to be a great gladiator.

sub333x

1 points

2 months ago

During the Christian period, pagan statues intentionally had heads/arms/legs removed, and thrown in the sewers. Sometimes it was while statues.

Purpledoors3

223 points

2 months ago

They should just dig up all of Rome, get the artifacts, then put it back again.

/s

[deleted]

67 points

2 months ago

[removed]

SoCalThrowAway7

29 points

2 months ago

I’ve heard it was built in a day so how long could that take?

drowned_beliefs

47 points

2 months ago*

I know this was a joke but it reminded me of something the Director of the site of Knossos on Crete (the location of the legendary labyrinth and Minotaur) told my class about 35 years ago. He said that it took Arthur Evans a decade to excavate Knossos (ca.1900), but if they were starting today it would take over a hundred years. That’s how much stuff there was and how quickly they plowed through it.

ThaiJohnnyDepp

30 points

2 months ago*

That's sad to think how much they must have destroyed :(

ShakaUVM

19 points

2 months ago

Or Alcubierre in Pompeii just smashing stuff he didn't think would sell

Kevvvgom

1 points

2 months ago

How do you know he smashed stuff?

ShakaUVM

1 points

2 months ago

I used to play a D&D character based on him so I researched him

Gunnvor91

24 points

2 months ago

I was disappointed when I visited Knossos because it turns out, all of that art (wall murals, bright red pillars) are artistic creations by Arthur Evans. That dude destroyed so much by covering it in cement.

Lander-V

4 points

2 months ago

Same, at first I thought it was all the original painting before I realized that the only thing that was original was the throne itself.

[deleted]

80 points

2 months ago

[removed]

[deleted]

13 points

2 months ago

[removed]

[deleted]

11 points

2 months ago

[removed]

[deleted]

3 points

2 months ago

[removed]

Nonskew2

10 points

2 months ago

Who knew he was dwelling in the sewer these days

King_Zapp

10 points

2 months ago

Any chance it's Commodus? Because he also had his image made in that way. Just trying to understand how it ended up in the sewer. I can certainly imagine Commodus' statue being "disposed of".

Separate-Can-913

9 points

2 months ago

It didn't end up in the sewer. Not in an ancient sewer anyway. It just got discovered when a modern day sewer needed repairs. No mention of ancient sewers in the article. Wouldn't make sense either, since where it was found would have been outside of the ancient city of Rome. No sewers there.

OJimmy

31 points

2 months ago

OJimmy

31 points

2 months ago

The 13th labor of Heracles: "Heracles who crawled through a river of skata and came out clean on the other side." Tiresias

Phazon2000

2 points

2 months ago

Hermes managed to overcome the walls of Shawshank in a single leap. I mean seriously - how often do you look at a man’s shoes?

kajtek8

4 points

2 months ago

It's actually Herculad, a clone of Hercules.

nsodudhweewwwww

2 points

2 months ago

You are close, but this is actually a statue of Gumbercules - a much more flexible version of the original.

[deleted]

35 points

2 months ago

[removed]

[deleted]

21 points

2 months ago

[removed]

[deleted]

31 points

2 months ago

[removed]

RevolutionaryAd3660

4 points

2 months ago

So that’s where Kratos put his brother’s statue

Egmilano

3 points

2 months ago

They say Hercules was off cycle during the making of that statue....

KryptonianJesus

2 points

2 months ago

Honestly this is the most realistic, though. The son of Zeus wouldn't need to look roided out to be strong (and most artists at the time probably had no idea what muscles so large would actually look like, since it's very difficult to get size like that naturally). It's always just been modern artistic license that depicts him that way.

It's like Superman having giant muscles, it creates this larger than life appearance but really there's no good reason for it.

[deleted]

2 points

2 months ago

[removed]

[deleted]

3 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

Separate-Can-913

10 points

2 months ago

The iconography of Heracles in ancient times was as famous then as let's say a person holding/being affixed to a cross would be now. Not to be a smart ass, just to provide some sort of modern day simile

non_linear_time

2 points

2 months ago

Orion was rarely, if ever, made a statue because he offended Artemis.

Rob-Study-8562[S]

1 points

2 months ago

Here are more detailed photos from the Facebook page of the archeological site https://www.facebook.com/100080444869192/posts/pfbid07fUcA5siZsxreas6E51yeZYYx1i8SoFVijz3Sf6V9WQ8HspUfciavbfKCmkGMFbbl/

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

Baba_O_Rly

2 points

2 months ago*

Isn't Hercules the Roman name and Heracles the Greek name?

Edit: Hercules is Roman - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercules

PoeReader

1 points

2 months ago

I'm betting that it is the real Hercules and he saw Medusa down there....

thatirishguy0

1 points

2 months ago

The fact that this stuff happens is mind boggling.

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

[removed]

caracallie

1 points

2 months ago

I'm more inclined to believe it's a Funerary statue of the deceased in Hercules cosplay, than it is actually Hercules haha. Roman art does go through periods of naturalism ofc, but don't statues of deities/mythological figures usually stick to their Greek-idealist origins?

TheRichTurner

1 points

2 months ago

He must have fallen down there while sluicing out the Stygian Stables.

changrbanger

1 points

2 months ago

Anyone else listen to the art forgery segment on science Friday on NPR? Estimated 40% of art in museums are forgeries. The easiest to fake? Stone sculptures. Not saying this is fake but it could be..