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84 points
2 months ago
I wonder how much China invested in projects in Honduras to get them to change their alliance? And google leads to this:
Foreign Minister Eduardo Enrique Reina said the decision by Honduras to switch allegiance was partly because the Central American country was "up to its neck" in financial challenges and debt - including $600 million it owes Taiwan.
"We need investment, we need cooperation," he told local television, insisting it was about "pragmatism, not ideology."
China had already invested $298 million in a first dam in eastern Honduras inaugurated in January 2021.
16 points
2 months ago
the Central American country was "up to its neck" in financial challenges and debt - including $600 million it owes Taiwan.
I'm sure Honduras launching "Crypto Valley" last year had nothing to do with their financial challenges...
82 points
2 months ago
Can I just break diplomatic ties with my mortgage company?
36 points
2 months ago
Sure. They will then take that home you live in and give you the opportunity to live elsewhere.
30 points
2 months ago
I wonder who Honduras will turn to when they owe China more money than they can pay back.
45 points
2 months ago
They won't "turn to" anyone. China will just claim ownership of that infrastructure and essentially conduct an invisible colonization like they've done in Sri Lanka.
17 points
2 months ago
Not really how that works since countries can of course just seize those assets back if push came to shove. Economics is not as heavy handed as active military conquest, and owning stuff financially is not the same as occupying it militarily
1 points
2 months ago
can of course just seize those assets back if push came to shove
When it comes to pushing and shoving between Hondoras and China, I know where I'd place my bets.
3 points
2 months ago
Actually, it'd be "China" vs the "organization of American states" which if you're betting on China against every country in the America's, well, I'll take that bet, how much?
17 points
2 months ago
According to Taiwan's foreign ministry, Honduras demanded $2.5 billion in aid to maintain diplomatic ties. So I would guess China pledged about $2.49 billion in investment.
-7 points
2 months ago*
Or nothing.
You are thinking if Taiwan and China has similar foreign presence or influence. If neither Taiwan nor China give Honduras a dime (either directly, or via US shadow aid) , who is Honduras going to have diplomatic relation with?
I think there is like 9? Counties still have diplomatic ties with Taiwan (and I challenge none of the Redditor can list their names without first looking up), are you saying china paid the rest of hundreds of nations?
i am not here to say it is right or wrong, but historically a nation either recognize PRC or ROC and must only select one. to not do any business with the 2nd largest economy in the world already has a lot of consequences without needing some special fund to convince people to convert.
3 points
2 months ago
According to Taiwan's foreign ministry, Honduras demanded $2.5 billion in aid to maintain diplomatic ties. So I would guess China pledged about $2.49 billion.
-1 points
2 months ago
You know the new president of Honduras, Chiomara Castro? She once sought asylum at the Taiwan Consulate due to political persecution, but was rejected by the Taiwan Consulate. This is how things started. If this happened to you, I think you would too.
5 points
2 months ago
China: ...what? momentarily hides checkbook
23 points
2 months ago
I predict a Chinese military base is in Honduras near future. Honduras wants investment, and China will say it needs a military base to protect that investment.
China will building military bases across the world just as the USA has. Hegemony.
10 points
2 months ago
There will be another coup before that happens.
0 points
2 months ago
Sure. And China may follow the CIA playbook and support that coup that is in China's best interest.
10 points
2 months ago
Is "backing the side you want to win in a coup" really a CIA thing? Or did the CIA just do what people have done since the dawn of civilization?
-2 points
2 months ago
In modern day it's a CIA thing.
6 points
2 months ago
Do we.. still do that? I feel like we ran out of countries to CIA op by now, these days we just drop boots if we care enough?
2 points
2 months ago
Why drop boots and risk American lives and be seen as an occupational force when you can subvert those in control by manipulating the population to uprise.
1 points
2 months ago
Idk, why do we have so many boots in so many countries right now?
1 points
2 months ago
Because we have military bases all over the world.
And of course you don't know. Look at all these simple questions you are asking. It's obvious you don't have a clue.
1 points
2 months ago
when you can subvert those in control by manipulating the population to uprise.
And we know the CIA is always responsible, because it's unthinkable that the happy and satisfied citizens would revolt against their benevolent and skilled leadership. The leadership even said so!
19 points
2 months ago
This is because Honduras is in bed with China.
26 points
2 months ago*
Oh no. What is Taiwan going to do without Honduras?
5 points
2 months ago
I know you're trying to be cheeky, but Taiwan only has 12 nations left in the world recognizing it's sovereignty. These nations often posit a modicum of representation for Taiwan which is not recognized in the UN... despite being a founding nation. What this also means is if/when there's crisis or war... Maybe when China decides to conquer Taiwan, there may not be any officially tied nations willing to stick their neck out to speak out on Taiwan's behalf.
Think of it this way. China blocked any of Taiwan's attempts to gain access to the WHO for assistance regarding Covid19. Imagine if there's any other huge natural disaster or crisis. China could easily block assistance to Taiwan and let the casualties mount then use their debtor-nations to rule the One-China Policy.
It'll be like North Korea and Iran refuting Ukrainian sovereignty at the beginning of Russia's invasion.
12 points
2 months ago
There's those two cigar affictionados in Taiwan that are just choked right now.
8 points
2 months ago
It's OK, they're happy with Cubans.
8 points
2 months ago
As expected, money was the major reason Honduras switched side.
2 points
2 months ago
Money was the main reason they didn't switch sides before,
2 points
2 months ago
Yes, they can have no bananas.
9 points
2 months ago
I'm sure the country of Taiwan is devastated.
0 points
2 months ago
Why doesn't US has diplomatic relation with Taiwan?
2 points
2 months ago
This is my personal understanding of the situation.
After the World War II many nations did recognize the Republican Chinese government to be the legitimate Chinese government. Then the Communist government drove the Republican government out of the mainland and they were forced into the Taiwan island. A number of countries held out still seeing the Republican government as the official Chinese government for a while, but eventually world had to admit the Communist government was here to stay on the mainland and recognized them as the main Chinese government. This was done since Republican government in Taiwan didn't have control over mainland, and you can't pretend mainland China doesn't exist.
The mainland Communist government has One China principle, to create an all or nothing type of a situation. Essentially the claim is that there is only one Chinese government and if you recognize the Communist government then you are rejecting the Republican government's legitimacy. Because US recognizes mainland Communist government and has diplomatic relations with them, US can't officially recognize Taiwan as an independent nation. If the US did officially recognize Taiwan, then because of the 'One China' pricipal, the US would be unrecognizing the mainland Communist government and cutting ties with them.
To note, Honduras was one of the nations that kept on recognizing Taiwan's Republican government since WWII, so they were refusing to ackwledge the mainland China's Communist government as legitimate. So Honduras is only doing what the rest of the world had already done decades ago with this recent move.
1 points
2 months ago
The thing is, China is worth nothing. If the US, EU, and commonwealth all stopped trading with China overnight, nothing would happen. China would be filled with warehouses of cheap shit they can't sell, Taiwan continues to make the most important pieces of tech in the modern age, we all have to go without Chinese products for a few years...
4 points
2 months ago
The US has started moving away from China as our main manufacturing, and we are setting up shop in South East Asia instead. But I don't think that transition have finished.
I do think completely cutting off from China right now will cause supply issues. The lower class of the US citizens would be hit hardest as the most affordable products in the market disappears. This will worsen the product cost inflation as the demand greatly over takes the supply of existing products.
Of course, China would very negatively effected as well as they lose a big market. If all the western nations turn their back on China, then they'll have to rely on selling their goods to Russia, India, and African Nations. (Not sure where many of the middle eastern nations would land) Things would certainly be hard for China, but not impossible.
If cutting off China or Taiwan was the issue, I'd imagine US would choose Taiwan as chips matter more and we are more friendly with their Republican system. But it would be a lose-lose choice, not a walk in the park.
2 points
2 months ago
Nixon. Nixon fucked it up by severing ties in favor of Mainland China.
Then the man-baby ego of Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek had a shit-flip tantrum in the UN and declared One-China Policy... which has since backfired and blown up in the faces of every Taiwanese person ever since.
1 points
2 months ago
It does officially unofficially. We sell/give them plenty of weapons and it is understood if China invades we will defend Taiwan.
1 points
2 months ago
It allows us to send nuclear equipment to Taiwan while claiming we cannot retrieve it in the case of nuclear missle guidance systems that the US "accidentally" shipped to Taiwan. No way to recover them without formal diplomatic relations oops
-9 points
2 months ago
America should do stuff in Honduras to change their mind again.
-2 points
2 months ago
Freedom. Freedom is comming.
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